1 – Piazza Venezia / Via del Mare, Urban renovation 1885-1911 / 1926-32
2 – Circo Massimo, Fascist Temporary Exhibitions 1937-1939
3 – Passeggiata Archeologica, Archeological Park 1908-1914
4 – Caracalla Baths, Proposal for the Rebuilding of the Baths (Aldo Rossi) 1978
5 – Garbatella District, 1920-1934 (G. Giovannoni, M. Piacentini, I. Sabbatini and others)
6 – Mercati Generali at Via Ostiense, (food market), 1913-1924 (E. Saffi) Redevelopment with commerical-leisure-cultural facilities (2000-10 (OMA/Rem Koolhaas)
7 – Post Office at via Marmorata,1933-1935 (Adalberto Libera, Mario De Renzi)
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garbatella: GARDEN CITY[7:59:32 PM] mia ovcina says: the green city itinerary introduced a couple of main themes for the class...
[8:00:17 PM] ariane.pm says: so, the themes seem to be
1) how existing projects that are kept intact to idolize a certain time period have to be integrated into a new landscape and
2) the city within the city...
[8:03:36 PM] mia ovcina says: with a dash of propaganda, italian political agendas, and libera
[8:10:33 PM] ariane.pm says: yes. maybe we can address rome as disneyland to begin with
[8:13:53 PM] mia ovcina says: disneyROMA! but aside from tourists, and the obvious attractions, there IS a bit more history/context here...
[8:14:07 PM] ariane.pm says: for example, mussolini planting the pine trees at largo argentina because he thought they were reminiscent of ancient columns and wanted to produce an [artificially] picturesque landscape. since he arbitrarily froze all the layers of rome and pulled out the classical layer as THE one to idolize and reference.
[8:14:38 PM] ariane.pm says: or all the fake paving going on around the forum
[8:14:53 PM] ariane.pm says: and the separation of the forum from the city in the first place!
[8:16:05 PM] ariane.pm says: roma: adventure park.
[8:16:19 PM] mia ovcina says: fine. but there's more...
[8:16:39 PM] mia ovcina says: some of the ruins have been succesfully repurposed.
[8:17:42 PM] ariane.pm says: those old pieces of rubble, waiting for the new idea of the city....
[8:18:22 PM] mia ovcina says: shut up. For example, Circo Massimo/Passeggiata Archeologica... they have modern uses...
[8:19:11 PM] ariane.pm says: yes. a prime example of site value!!
[8:21:04 PM] ariane.pm says: and circo massimo is still being used as a center for spectacle. just as in the good ol' days...
[8:21:23 PM] mia ovcina says: precisely!
[8:26:10 PM] mia ovcina says: ...back to the city, there's also the theme of modern developments (mostly in the periphery) and the various approaches/ideologies as to how rome should expand...
[8:42:07 PM] ariane.pm says: with Garbatella?
[8:58:39 PM] mia ovcina says: yeah. Garbatella...
[9:33:27 PM] ariane.pm says: well. a lot people were forced to leave the city center when it was destroyed...like when Mussolini elimated that neighborhood (Alessandrino) for the construction of the Via dei Fori Imperiali, or before that when the Altare della Patria was inaugurated...
[9:35:11 PM] ariane.pm says: and they were relocated to a new neighborhood, outside the city walls, and were obliged to reinvent a language for themselves.
[9:38:06 PM] mia ovcina says: ironic that the invented language of many of these developments is one that attempts to emulate the city, the place the residents were expelled from, instead of creating something new... something better...
[9:39:42 PM] ariane.pm says: well, they did try to create something better--the garden city--actually an ancient concept in the end...but they had to have a new identity for themselves since they were so detached from and not really part of rome anymore.
[9:42:42 PM] ariane.pm says: so they built their own little square and little houses with shared gardens...it was the fascists that ruined it!! the first movement in 1920 was smaller, more traditional, then in 1934 that idea was done away with and the monumentalization began...silly barochetto...
1) how existing projects that are kept intact to idolize a certain time period have to be integrated into a new landscape and
2) the city within the city...
[8:03:36 PM] mia ovcina says: with a dash of propaganda, italian political agendas, and libera
[8:10:33 PM] ariane.pm says: yes. maybe we can address rome as disneyland to begin with
[8:13:53 PM] mia ovcina says: disneyROMA! but aside from tourists, and the obvious attractions, there IS a bit more history/context here...
[8:14:07 PM] ariane.pm says: for example, mussolini planting the pine trees at largo argentina because he thought they were reminiscent of ancient columns and wanted to produce an [artificially] picturesque landscape. since he arbitrarily froze all the layers of rome and pulled out the classical layer as THE one to idolize and reference.
[8:14:38 PM] ariane.pm says: or all the fake paving going on around the forum
[8:14:53 PM] ariane.pm says: and the separation of the forum from the city in the first place!
[8:16:05 PM] ariane.pm says: roma: adventure park.
[8:16:19 PM] mia ovcina says: fine. but there's more...
[8:16:39 PM] mia ovcina says: some of the ruins have been succesfully repurposed.
[8:17:42 PM] ariane.pm says: those old pieces of rubble, waiting for the new idea of the city....
[8:18:22 PM] mia ovcina says: shut up. For example, Circo Massimo/Passeggiata Archeologica... they have modern uses...
[8:19:11 PM] ariane.pm says: yes. a prime example of site value!!
[8:21:04 PM] ariane.pm says: and circo massimo is still being used as a center for spectacle. just as in the good ol' days...
[8:21:23 PM] mia ovcina says: precisely!
[8:26:10 PM] mia ovcina says: ...back to the city, there's also the theme of modern developments (mostly in the periphery) and the various approaches/ideologies as to how rome should expand...
[8:42:07 PM] ariane.pm says: with Garbatella?
[8:58:39 PM] mia ovcina says: yeah. Garbatella...
[9:33:27 PM] ariane.pm says: well. a lot people were forced to leave the city center when it was destroyed...like when Mussolini elimated that neighborhood (Alessandrino) for the construction of the Via dei Fori Imperiali, or before that when the Altare della Patria was inaugurated...
[9:35:11 PM] ariane.pm says: and they were relocated to a new neighborhood, outside the city walls, and were obliged to reinvent a language for themselves.
[9:38:06 PM] mia ovcina says: ironic that the invented language of many of these developments is one that attempts to emulate the city, the place the residents were expelled from, instead of creating something new... something better...
[9:39:42 PM] ariane.pm says: well, they did try to create something better--the garden city--actually an ancient concept in the end...but they had to have a new identity for themselves since they were so detached from and not really part of rome anymore.
[9:42:42 PM] ariane.pm says: so they built their own little square and little houses with shared gardens...it was the fascists that ruined it!! the first movement in 1920 was smaller, more traditional, then in 1934 that idea was done away with and the monumentalization began...silly barochetto...
(ugly fascist barochetto building)[9:43:26 PM] mia ovcina says: it's true, but how much of it was built by 'them' vs. imposed on them by the state? i'm not convinced...
[9:43:42 PM] ariane.pm says: who is them?
[9:43:52 PM] mia ovcina says: them being the people...
[9:44:00 PM] mia ovcina says: the expelled ones
[9:44:26 PM] mia ovcina says: and now they get koolhaas and starchitecture, do they really need it?
[9:46:03 PM] ariane.pm says: ugh. when i say they, i mean gustavo giovanoni, architectural theorist and founder of the architecture school of rome, who was the 1920 planner. he wanted something nice for them. the people were actors in his play. they dealt with his stage props. but they did ok, they built a community feeling.
[9:46:31 PM] ariane.pm says: koolhaas is just trying to make his city of youth...
[9:47:10 PM] ariane.pm says: a connection between the industrial center of garbatella and universita roma tre
[9:47:09 PM] mia ovcina says: "the people were actors in his play." that's what i'm saying. it's not real...
[9:47:37 PM] ariane.pm says: what is your point? live something long enough, make it a reality.
[9:48:12 PM] ariane.pm says: ok we are done here.
[9:48:16 PM] mia ovcina says: fine
[9:48:19 PM] ariane.pm says: it worked is all.
[9:48:42 PM] mia ovcina says: but did it really?
[9:48:27 PM] ariane.pm says: people want to live there now.
[9:48:35 PM] ariane.pm says: gabriele wants to live there.
[9:48:57 PM] mia ovcina says: it's a constructed lie.
[9:49:05 PM] ariane.pm says: the end.
[9:49:05 PM] ariane.pm says: the end.
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